hormones in milk

Question
QUESTION: Dear Sir,
   I have now read thru all the questions and answers on this site and many times I hear you say that both cow and goat milk causes problems. But I presume you mean fresh milk?? Milk has been a food of Northern Europeans for many hundreds of years and not too many are lactose intolerant genetically, although a very large percent of Chinese are! But fermentation, which was common in old times as there was no refrigeration, uses up the lactose sugar in the milk and replaces it with lactic acid bacteria which preserves it and also help prevent many diseases of the intestines. It is a much better food that way, although I agree it has more calcium then magnesium, but if you have other fruits or vegetables that have magnesium and dont drink a gallon of milk a day... it should make up for it.
    I set my fresh milk out on the counter to pick up the natural airborne bacteria of which there are about 5 basic types, (which I experimented with alot.) they are very close to the different cheese starters that they use for the different types of cheese,(the real ones- which are made without any high heat) In about 12 hours you generally have a nice soured milk drink,-not sugar filled like commercial yogurts. Its similar to your aged meats.   
    I dont expect you will want to try milk again, but for those who do, if they will let it sour naturally, it will be much better. Of course it has to be fresh and not pasturized(boiled) or it wont work, it will rot!! And it also has been found that those who are lactose intolerant because of genetics can often drink fermented milk like kefir without bloating and diarhea!!
    I am curious, what is the highest source of magnesium in the meats? Even if you ate powdered bone, it would be high in calcium and phosphorus, but not magnesium? Where do you get magnesium on an all meat diet??
     Thank you for a most interesting site, and as a side note on a different topic that I wrote to you earlier today, in the US they DON'T have any routine testing or treating for worms At All- as you mentioned was common in the Western Countries!  I was very surprised to hear it is easily available in England!! I wish it was here! Here it is a not even considered to think about it as a problem unless you have been to some foreign Asian or African country!!
   I have a friend who wants to be tested and treated and her doctor wont even think of it and says any symptoms are all in her mind! Its like a taboo subject!! We are too rich and civilized to consider we could get worms!! Yet we can get them from all the dogs and cats who have them and lick their rears and eat "stuff and then lick our faces.....some are species specific and quite a few aren't.. And of course the vets say you should worm your pets twice a year.. sorry I should have made this a separate post....
    Sincerely, Abby

ANSWER: There are a few problems with your above claims. First of all, there are  many other problems with raw dairy. There`s all the nasty hormones present in raw dairy which can easily foul up the human glandular system. Then there is the lactose in raw dairy which , in excess, leads to copper-deficiency and higher rates of heart-disease.

Plus, from beyondveg.com:-

"Molecular mimicry/autoimmune response issues. Additionally, autoimmune responses are being increasingly recognized as a factor in the development of atherosclerosis. In relation to this, research has shown milk to cause exceptionally high production of certain antibodies which cross-react with some of the body's own tissues (an autoimmune response), specifically an immune response directed against the lining of the blood vessels. This process is thought to lead to atherosclerotic lesions, the first step that paves the way for consequent buildup of plaque."

You are correct in stating that the calcium excess in raw dairy is not going to be much of a problem if one drinks only a little raw dairy. But most of the RVAFers I know who do consume raw dairy, consume it in very large amounts. I have even had one person admit to feeding his family with lots of pumpkin seeds which are very high in magnesium and low in calcium, so as to offset the excess calcium in the raw dairy they consume.

Another aspect is the casein in raw dairy to which a lot of people are allergic. There is also another factor:- there are a lot of people who are only mildly allergic to raw dairy  - such people might well not notice any specific ill-health from the raw dairy but could easily end up not improving their health overall due to this slight allergy. Basically, my rule is that if someone experiences ill-health from consuming pasteurised dairy then they should also avoid raw dairy like the plague.Sure, symptoms might be "less worse" or even unnoticeable  when consuming raw dairy, but the fact that there is a problem with pasteurised dairy is a very bad sign.

Raw shellfish is high in magnesium. Try raw oysters.


As regards parasites/bacteria fears, all I can state is that the only way to dismiss such fears is to try this raw diet. Like all others beforehand, you will at first think you are going to die from food-poisoning or whatever. After a few weeks you will be astonished to find yourself still alive. After some months, you will start noticing definite signs of improved health. After a couple of years, you will think nothing of eating raw, aged meat, and will accept all those media-scares re bacteria and parasites are bogus.
HTH,
RPG.


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Dear Sir,
        I did want to ask what hormones you meant were in raw milk?  The commercial diaries do use some hormones to increase milk production, which are bad for both the cows and humans. But good small dairies advertise they are antibiotic as well as hormone free and organic also, just as you try to find your meat that way. Did you perhaps mean the cows own hormones such as a human mother might have in her milk?
   I raise my own goats which I butcher to eat. And fresh raw milk and cream which is soured into buttermilk or kefir is a vital part of my diet, so you can see I am much in favor of it and have no problems with it. I very much would say that pasteurized diary is the worst for it is dead- while raw fermented dairy is the best for its natural beneficial bacteria eat up the lactose you mention as well as kill any harmful germs! so people dont have to worry about that part of it at least!
I can't remember about the casein.
      And from the diary folks perspective, the media scares about any diseases that people get from raw milk are very hyped up and most unsubstantiated from the commercial milk producers who dont want competition from the organic and raw milk folks, just as you mention about the media scares about bateria and parasites in meats.
   I live in the central part of the US where raw shellfish is very rare and highly costly, so that wouldnt good source of magnesium. Tho I have only just in the past few days looked up all this interesting info on the computor about raw meat diets, (because of a separate question I had which I will ask later.) I presumed a Paleo diet meant basic foods a cave man would find.  So what about the cavemen that didnt live near the coast as to get fish and shrimp and oysters and only had deer and hare?? I always presumed Paleolithic humans would eat some raw vegetables, nuts and berries - anything they could find.... with their raw meat, wouldnt they get magnesium that way?? Oh and you did mention pumpkin seeds too that someone used. It seems tho that there are many forms of the raw meat diet-some people are strictly meat and some add other forms of food. And since everyone is different this is fine and we just have to experiement and find our own way, but it is very fascinating to read and hear other peoples experiences and points of view, so I thank you for replying to my posts.

Answer
Yes, I did indeed refer to the natural hormones present in cows` milk, not any synthetic hormones. Bear in mind that cows` breast milk is intended for calves, not humans, it is designed to help calves quickly grow to adult size within 2 years and contains hormones designed to help calves sleep etc.

Re dairy:- if you have any serious problems with pasteurised dairy, I urge you again to avoid raw dairy as well, for the reason I gave previously. If you have only slight to no health problems  with pasteurised dairy, then eating fermented raw dairy should not be a problem, as the fermentation does help with the lactose, though not other issues. If you also moderate your raw dairy consumption(ie you don`t drink half a dozen litres of raw milk a day like some primal dieters), then that also helps.

Re media-scares:- you are quite right, such unfounded scares are just cynically used by big dairy firms to wipe out the competition.

Re coast/shellfish:- Yes, not being near the coast means raw seafood is way too expensive, unfortunately. Raw meat contains plenty of magnesium, more than enough to offset the excess calcium in raw dairy if one`s raw dairy intake is only moderate. If your raw dairy intake is very high, then I would strongly suggest buying raw pumpkin seeds. I see them in health-food stores all the time, and they are dirt-cheap. Then again, like you said, there are always exceptions to every rule, and I`ve come across some individuals who`ve claimed they can eat tons of raw dairy without ever suffering any side-effects and not needing extra magnesium.....

People in palaeo times had access to raw wild game such as aurochs, mammoths and wild deer etc. etc. Modern peoples either can rely mostly on raw wild game, like I do,  or they should eat raw, grassfed meats, preferably 100% grassfed meats if they cannot get the former. Raw, grainfed or partially-grainfed meats are unhealthy and poor in taste, so are to be avoided. I know an american guy who buys pet-food-grade 100% grassfed meat from a texas farm called "slanker`s" which has organ-meats mixed into it, and the stuff is very cheap indeed.  Raw organ-meats are the cheapest as no non-rawist wants to buy the stuff - plus they are even higher in nutrients than raw muscle-meat.

Also, like you said, most people have to experiment with diet as some prefer all-raw-meat diets, or raw, low-carb like me,then there are others who eat 90% of their diet in the form of raw plant foods and only 10% raw animal foods.


HTH,
RPG.

1. Prev:bone fragments digestible?
2. Next:wormer meds not easily available US